Some of you might recall when I ased for opinions on various exhaust
systems. Well, here are some things I ran across while putting it on:
1) I ended up installing just the Leistritz muffler.
2) the chaep resonator stayed.
3) Some people said that the pipes could be different diameters. NOT TRUE!!
Everything fit correctly.
4) It took me 2 hours to get the old pipe off. 1/2 hour to put the whole
thing on.
5) Only problem I ran across is that the hooks that hold the end of the
muffler on to the body of the car were off center. I ended up bending
then a bit and everything fit fine.
6) No welding necessary – one clamp did it all.
7) Looks awesome (BIG balck pipe [944 turbo type] sticking out on red
background)
I find that I can get to the high reves easier. Seems like there is less
strain on the engine.
9) It is not as loud like some people warned me about. It gives a real
nice strong german engine sound when in the higher revs.
Any more Q’s? I’ll tell you all I know.
ANdy
—
**************************************************************************
___ "Igoddago, Takideezy & Guluk"
/…\___ gajew…@ug.cs.dal.ca goa…@ac.dal.ca
|-O—-O->
In article <1992Mar29.051402.18…@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> rjo…@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ronald Jones) writes:
>My other concern is value. The new Corrado seems like a nice
>enough auto (I have looked one over but haven’t driven one)
>but not for $24k. Look what $20k will get you in a Mitsu,
>just as an example of the competition.
None of the competition has the VR6 engine and its giant-killing
performance. None of the competition has the communication,
sensitivity and fluency of a Corrado. Too bad you didn’t try it.
It’s expensive, sure, but even though it competes in the same
market segment as a Mitsubishi Eclipse or Nissan 240SX, its
finer qualities are in a different plane altogether, and is
not immediately obvious to the casual driver.
My advice to you is this: If your main criteria in a car is for it to
take you to work and back everyday and not ask too much of you, (which
is perfectly valid) then stick to a Nissan, Honda, Mitsubishi or
whatever. They are better suited for that role.
On the other hand, if you are an uncompromising purist and you demand
that your car is not designed towards the whims of a largely ignorant
car buying public then go for a VW. The Japanese "sports" cars can
produce good looking numbers that an ad agency will put to good use,
but all the stuff that cannot be quantified (and there are lots of
them but I won’t get into them here) they are usually inferior.
It is undeniable that in terms of appliance value, VW is slipping
relative to its competition. They have still not provided the
mandatory cup holders for example, and as you noted, quality control
ain’t too hot. As a sensible purchase, its case is probably not very
strong, but if you are well aquainted with its finer qualities that
the Japanese have so far been unable to emulate, you wouldn’t want
anything else. It is like fine wine versus a beer. On one level you
can argue that a beer is better because it costs less for the same
buzz or because the beer bottle top is more convenient to remove than
the wine bottle cork. Appreciating VWs is like appreciating fine
wine. Some people will not know what the big fuss is all about and go
for the beer.
I hope that this offers a different perspective at looking at cars.
The cold, hard logical numbers will tell you to buy Japanese. The
subjective, intangible and emotional qualities will tell you to buy
VW. In a sense this issue is somewhat similar to the "buy american"
bloodbath, except that in this case, it is not a matter of patriotism
but rather one of engineering principles. You can decide for yourself
what is more important for you.
eliot
rjo…@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ronald Jones) writes:
> Yet I have serious reservations about buying another VW. It
> seems that the quality of the U.S. delivered cars is poorer
> than ever. This is reflected in the most resent Consumer
> Reports Annual Auto issue. The ratings of Corrado and Passat
> were poor.
I will admit to not reading CR
, but I have some personal data points:
– A friend’s ’85 Audi Coupe. At 250K miles, still going on the original
engine. Admittedly now no longer a low-maintenance car. :)
– My wife’s ’86 GTI. Since new, repair, maintenance and tire costs
have been less than $1500. Has never broken down on us. 60K miles.
– A friend’s ’87 GTI. Now has 120K miles, and has gone through things
like shocks, tires etc. normally, but no major repairs required. The
friend is now considering a Corrado…
– My ’90 GTI 16V. Still under warranty at 25K miles, but only mechanical
problem so far has been a cracked distributor cap.
– My brother’s ’90 Corrado. At 10K miles, a low-mileage car, but totally
problem-free in any case.
– My sister-in-law’s ’90 Jetta. A few minor glitches, but after 20K
miles, no mechanical problems.
Of course, I have no idea how CR would rate these cars.
> My other concern is value. The new Corrado seems like a nice
> enough auto (I have looked one over but haven’t driven one)
> but not for $24k. Look what $20k will get you in a Mitsu,
> just as an example of the competition.
I assume you’re talking about the Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX AWD Turbo. All
right, let’s take a look:
Eclipse:
+ Lower price
+ All-wheel drive
+ 2.0L 16V turbo engine has more hp
Corrado:
+ 2.8L VR6 engine considerable more refined, torquey and flexible
+ One of the very best FWD chassis around, with balanced handling
that will beat a 944, not to even mention an Eclipse
+ ABS and much bigger brakes
+ Traction control
+ Lower profile tires on wider wheels
+ Recaro seats
+ 10% lighter than Eclipse
+ Fahrvergnugen! :)
> Can anyone defend VWs as being a good choice in the 90s? The
> rabbit was a remarkable car in the 70s and early 80s but I’m
> not sure that can be said today
A lot of Europeans sure think it’s still a good choice. The new Golf is
outselling its German competitor, the new Opel Astra, by 2:1 in Germany,
and VW is clearly #1 in European sales.
In terms of VW’s flagging US sales, I believe the biggest reason is that
VW is not designing cars specifically for the US market (unlike cars like
the new Civic, new Accord and new Camry, all designed primarily for the
US market), but instead designing them with the VW philosophy. This has
resulted in fairly spartan interiors, firm seats, conservative styling, no
airbags — and no cupholders. I have grown to love the VW design, but
it does not seem to be to the liking of the average American consumer.
VW is also perceived to have poor reliability, partially because of CR
ratings. As shown above, my experiences with VWs have been good, so I
really don’t know why the ratings are so poor. Could it be that VWs are
vulnerable to poor maintenance and abuse (all the cars above have been
maintained regularly)?
I fully expect that both of our GTIs will eventually be replaced by other
VW products (like that Jetta VR6…); certainly, you can count on me as
a satisfied and confident VW customer.
[ \tom haapanen "i don't even know what street canada is on" -- al capone ]
[ t...@wes.on.ca "trust the programmer" -- ansi c standard ]
[ waterloo engineering software "to thine own self be true" -- polonius ]
In article <1992Mar29.134624.26…@wes.on.ca> t…@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>I assume you’re talking about the Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX AWD Turbo. All
>right, let’s take a look:
> Eclipse:
> + Lower price
> + All-wheel drive
[etc]
One reason why I have some reservations about the AWD Eclipse is its use
of viscous coupled differentials, which are known to cause a multitude of
problems for the braking system, from premature rear lockup to resisting
proper working of ABS. If you look at Audi and Porsche, you’ll see that
there’s not a single model that uses VC’s.
But since all-wheel-drive is a topic that so few people understand,
Mitsubishi thought they could get away with it. The Eclipse has good
brakes, sure, but at the limits of braking performance, its all-wheel
drive system works against it, rather than for it. The fact that
a rear limited slip and ABS are mutually exclusive options is proof
of this.
VW has its own viscous coupled all-wheel drive system that it chose
not to put on its volume high performance cars. I see it as them
sticking to the principle that unless it exceeds some very high
engineering standards, it will not put them on the cars. The Japanese
companies see it more as "if it will generate more sales, do it".
That’s the kind of philosophy that I will continue to respect VW for.
eliot
Why don’t you try a new GTI??
You can get a loaded 16v for about $16,000 now
My ’86 runs great and feels like it will for some time!
Lee
In article <1992Mar29.051402.18…@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, rjo…@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Ronald Jones) writes:
|> I have owned 3 VWs since 1975 and since my present one will
|> be ten years old next model year I am about ready for a new
|> car. I have been very happy with all my VWs. My 1983 Gti
|> certainly has demonstrated the basic durability of VWs. It
|> has a stage 3 Callaway turbo, nitrous oxide, 103,000 miles
|> and ALL original parts except for the water pump and some
|> expendable parts such as exhaust, tires and shocks.
Only 103K? That’s young for a VW and not many miles per year for an ’83.
Why dump it if it still gets you where you need to go? If I were you
I would still keep it as a "toy" even if I decided to get a new one!
|>
|> Yet I have serious reservations about buying another VW. It
|> seems that the quality of the U.S. delivered cars is poorer
|> than ever. This is reflected in the most resent Consumer
|> Reports Annual Auto issue. The ratings of Corrado and Passat
|> were poor. On the other hand, my 83 GTI was rated above
|> average in repair rates by this same magazine (it is now too
|> old to be in the ratings) and the Rabbit was recommended by
|> Consumers (and other magazines) for many years.
I generally don’t pay much attention to what Consumer Reports says.
Look at how they collect their data. It’s all by polling their subscribers.
I wouldn’t call their subscribers a very good cross section of the population
in general. I expect people who read it to be (in general) on the technically
unknowledgeable side and to think of a car as just another appliance. Compare that
with the reader’s of this newsgroup who know that if you treat a car right and
take care of it (i.e. don’t ignore it by skipping regular maintenence intervals),
it will last practically forever. I’m surprised by what you say about the Consumer
Reports data. I’ve heard nothing but favorable feedback about the Passat and Corrado
in terms of customer satisfaction and reliability. But, I can’t really refute it…
|> My other concern is value. The new Corrado seems like a nice
|> enough auto (I have looked one over but haven’t driven one)
|> but not for $24k. Look what $20k will get you in a Mitsu,
|> just as an example of the competition. The older
|> supercharged version (which I have driven) was sadly lacking
|> in the engine compartment, it might have been better just to
|> put the "regular" 16 valve engine in it!
I’ll grant you that $24K is a lot. You might pay that now for a VR6 Corrado
.
since its the latest and greatest. Give it 6 months or so and the dealers will
be back to discounting as usual. I dare you to find anyone that paid even close
to list for a G60 Corrado. Try getting as big a discount on the Japanese sports coupes.
You won’t be able to I can almost guarantee. And also, there are lots of leftover G60′s available
now for $15K or less; a steal at that price. Yes, I’ll admit a G60 is a little sluggish
around town at low RPM. After 15 months of owning one, I’ve come to the conclusion
that’s it’s not really a lack of engine power, it’s more a mismatch in gearing. VW built
the Corrado as an Autobahn cruiser. Where it really shines is at 85 mph on an open
highway. And for another $500 or less in aftermarket parts, you can tweak it to
power levels comparable to the new VR6. For me, the lack of low end punch is not that big
a deal. It has probably saved me countless speeding tickets because there is less of an
urge to "punch it". On the highway… well that’s a different story
|> Can anyone defend VWs as being a good choice in the 90s? The
|> rabbit was a remarkable car in the 70s and early 80s but I’m
|> not sure that can be said today
|>
|> BTW put the flame throwers down. I am honestly looking for
|> justification to buy another of what have been my favorate
|> cars for the last fifteen years. Convince me!
Since you’re a long time VW owner, I don’t think you will be disappointed by what’s available
today. "Farvergnughen" is alive and well.
I just hit 35K miles last week. I’ve had no problems at all due to manufacturing
defects, etc. Just one stone in a windshield and one minor fender ding in a snow storm
(totally my fault/stupidity. Get ABS!).
-Jeff
–
==========================
Jeff Donsbach, Computervision, 14 Crosby Dr., Bedford, MA
UUCP: {decvax|linus|sun}!cvbnet!jdonsbac | Internet: jdons…@cvbnet.prime.com
In article <Mar29.101502.19…@engr.washington.edu> el…@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (Brutus Thornapple) writes:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>In article <1992Mar29.051402.18…@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> rjo…@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ronald Jones) writes:
>>My other concern is value. The new Corrado seems like a nice
>>enough auto (I have looked one over but haven’t driven one)
>>but not for $24k. Look what $20k will get you in a Mitsu,
>>just as an example of the competition.
>None of the competition has the VR6 engine and its giant-killing
>performance. None of the competition has the communication,
>sensitivity and fluency of a Corrado. Too bad you didn’t try it.
>It’s expensive, sure, but even though it competes in the same
>market segment as a Mitsubishi Eclipse or Nissan 240SX, its
>finer qualities are in a different plane altogether, and is
>not immediately obvious to the casual driver.
>My advice to you is this: If your main criteria in a car is for it to
>take you to work and back everyday and not ask too much of you, (which
>is perfectly valid) then stick to a Nissan, Honda, Mitsubishi or
>whatever. They are better suited for that role.
>On the other hand, if you are an uncompromising purist and you demand
>that your car is not designed towards the whims of a largely ignorant
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>car buying public then go for a VW. The Japanese "sports" cars can
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is where i want to cut in. I have a 1990 GLI and although i have had
some minor problems i would buy the same car again. Depending on which class
of car you are interested in compare it with a VW in the same class. For
example test drive a Honda Accord EX 4dr, an Acura Integra GS 4dr, Mitsu
Galant GS (i think) 4dr (not the 4 wheel drive/steering, 22k beast) and a VW
Jetta GLI. Each of these cars are considered the performance versions of
their 4dr sedans. You can buy the VW for at least 2k less than the least
expensive of the cars listed above and in terms of road feel and performance
none of those imports can touch it. But, the average "car buying public"
including Consumer Reports seems to prefer quieter, softer, characterless
cars.
>produce good looking numbers that an ad agency will put to good use,
>but all the stuff that cannot be quantified (and there are lots of
>them but I won’t get into them here) they are usually inferior.
>It is undeniable that in terms of appliance value, VW is slipping
>relative to its competition. They have still not provided the
>mandatory cup holders for example, and as you noted, quality control
>ain’t too hot. As a sensible purchase, its case is probably not very
>strong, but if you are well aquainted with its finer qualities that
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
These qualities fall under the banner "Fahrvergnugen". Its even on the
invoice slip. At no additional cost.
>the Japanese have so far been unable to emulate, you wouldn’t want
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>anything else.
[...text deleted...]
>eliot
.
/
Larry __/ ______ /
k…@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov / \
_ _ _ __ _____ \——- ===
———- / __ / / / /__ __/ \
/ / / ____ / / / / |
| / /___/ / / /__ __/ /__ /
/_____ \______/ /_____ / /______/ — ////
\_____ 2 liter 16v \_______/
Fahrvergnugen forever!
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
In article <1992Apr02.152527.28…@wes.on.ca> t…@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>In article <kdqS90T0Bwwa1_V…@transarc.com> Don_Schm…@TRANSARC.COM writes:
>>>> My other concern is value. The new Corrado seems like a nice
>>>> enough auto (I have looked one over but haven’t driven one)
>>>> but not for $24k. Look what $20k will get you in a Mitsu,
>>>> just as an example of the competition.
>>> None of the competition has the VR6 engine and its giant-killing
>>> performance. None of the competition has the communication,
>>> sensitivity and fluency of a Corrado. Too bad you didn’t try it.
>> The VR6 is not really a giant-killer (if it had been on time, things
>> would have been a lot different). There are any number of reasonably
>> refined, very powerful 4 cylinders for under $20K – eg. the new
>> Integra GR-S, variable valve timing, 160+ hp, 8000 rpm redline, base
>> sticker price ~$19K.
>> Looking at the sedan market,
>> there is the new Honda Civic 4 door – loaded, with 125hp 16V engine,
>> ABS and all sorts of creature comforts, it stickers at $15K.
>> Up the ante
>> to $20K and you can have a V6 Maxima or Camry, or a stripped down Saab
>> 900. All of these cars either come very close to VW performance at a
>> lower price, or provide more room/power at a similar cost.
>A Passat VR6 is priced at almost the same point as a Camry V6 GXL-SE-R (or
>whatever it was). It’s certainly as big inside, and has a comparable
>engine. So what’s your point?
I don’t think that we are comparing apples to apples here. Let us all
*hopefully* agree on something here. The Japanese target market for their
automobiles is the US. The German target market for theirs is Germany.
Naturally if I produce something with the intent to sell it to someone
else, I am going to try to include the things that they want…the things
that are going to make them sell, as the Japanese do.
I have been to Germany. There are absolutely no American or Japanese
cars over there. This is for the simple reason that they drive there
cars to the absolute limits ALL OF THE TIME. Try driving an American
car at 120mph for 3 hours everyday. It’s not going to happen for long.
The standard of living is very high over there, which leads to very high costs.The idea is to have a car that is reliable, and stays out of the shop.
You cannot compare a VW to a Honda, or a Toyota, etc. Just the same, you
cannot compare a Chevrolet to the latter two. Not that anyone is better, it
is all in what you like, or what you want.
I guess what I am trying to say is that seemingly equivalent cars are not
created equal. On paper, some are more impressive than others. Japanese
cars are reliable, maybe moreso than German cars, I don’t know…it has
so much to do with preventative maintenance. I have a passion for driving.
I’ve driven a lot of cars. I chose a VW for several reasons. I couldn’t
afford any other German sedan, as a student. My feeling is that if this
car is designed to German travel standards of driving (as opposed to American),
it will easily handle American standards. I also know many people that own
VWs, and love them. I love mine. It may give me problems in the future, but
at least I know that the experience it gives me justifies the cost of repair.
As far as comparisons go…You wouldn’t compare a Mercedes or a BMW to any
Japanese car, or vice versa. A VW is similar to these in design philosophy,
just in a much less luxurious fashion. So stick to comparing Toyotas to Mazdas,
Fords to Chevys, VWs to Opels, or Saabs, or some other European car.
I’m starting to think that fahrfegnugen, or however the hell you spell it, is
not something that comes with a VW. If it were, everyone could experience it.
Instead it is something that is only IN some of us, and only a VW can bring
it out. Trying to preach VW to the others is useless…They will never know
what they are missing.
Your mileage may vary,
–Jim
PS> Who cares about depreciation…I’m NEVER going to sell mine!
Ok, time for my $0.018 (plus 8.25% CA sales tax) worth. (A lurker nomore).
I am the proud owner/loan interest payer of a 1991 Jetta GL which I bought in mid-November of last year (New). I did have a water pump start leaking about
two weeks after bringing the bundle of fun home. I took it to a different VW
dealer than the one I purchased from. I was in and out on short notice in less than an hour (and they were busy). This Jetta is the first VW since my selling
of my ’80 Wabbit (with 169K, not yet overhauled, I might add) to buy an ’89
Isuzu pickup. So what, you say? The story gets better. Before the Wabbit I
had a ’72 Super Beetle in dayglow, see it 5 miles away in the dark ORANGE that
I wish I’d kept. It had it’s share of temperment, but it never failed to start
in northwestern Indiana winters (where you learn how to alternate shifting and
scraping the windows!).
But wait, there’s more. Before the Bug I bought a ’70 Fastback with ELECTRONIC
fuel injection for $75. I put $200 into slave/master cylinders and a tune-up
and drove it for 2.5 years until the winter road salt ate at the car until the
front fenders/hood drooped and would bounce when hitting a bump. The engine was removed and the rest scrapped.
If VWoA was able to re-introduce the Rabbit or Bug, like most of you out there
in net-land I would not hesitate to purchase. I enjoy the old ones and enjoy mynew one. Fahrvergnugen has been a standard part of all VDubs that I have owned.Sure, they all have had they’re share of problems. But follow the Idiot’s guideand you can’t kill them (it’s against VW international law to kill them anyways,punishable by death or Fahrvergnugen removal–whichever comes first). All cars
have problem because people design and build them. I work on multi-million
dollar mainframes which can be just as tempermental. I have already decided on
somthing to replace the Isuzu next year–either another Jetta, a GTi, or maybe
even a Cabriolet. Drive them because you want to, not because you have to.
Your mileage may vary, so enjoy!
BTW–can anyone lead me to some good floor mats for the Jetta that are of OEM
style, but less than the $80/set asking price? Thanks in advance.
A happy VW owner,
Don
Donald L. Dusza | __^/_ Someday, someone will be able to
Amdahl Corporation |_____(/)_____ fly with me and say: "Uh, you`d
Sunnyvale, CA 94088 USA | | /| | better start doing some of that
dl…@charon.amdahl.com | 0 0 0 pilot shit before we crash!!!"
Disclaimer: Amdahl and I don’t always Me, The Pilot Wannabe
share the same opinions (does anybody?)
In article <Apr01.204201.18…@engr.washington.edu> el…@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (Brutus Thornapple) writes:
>that buys it. My brother’s 85 GTI (and that’s a US made one) has been
>so good that he’ll definitely buy another. It cost about $11K when new.
>He can easily sell it for $5K today.
>eliot
I probably agree with your general idea about VW reliability, but
I couldn’t control myself:
$5K for an 85 GTi?
Are you crazy?
I bought an 87 GTi with high mileage (70Kat the time), in excellent
condition for $5K in September 1990 (yes, when it was less than 4 years old).
Your brother’s is now 6.5-7.5 years old. No way he is getting $5K.
With $5K you can probably get a 16V GTi (which was introduced in the US
in 1987, I believe).
–
————————————————————————-
Nicos Kontopoulos Voice: (617) 787-1780
INTERnet: ni…@cs.bu.edu BITnet: ecolpqc@buacca
————————————————————————-
In article <1992Apr3.143558.20…@wpi.WPI.EDU> j…@wpi.WPI.EDU (James Matthew Kokernak) writes:
>I’m starting to think that fahrfegnugen, or however the hell you spell it, is
>not something that comes with a VW. If it were, everyone could experience it.
>Instead it is something that is only IN some of us, and only a VW can bring
>it out. Trying to preach VW to the others is useless…They will never know
>what they are missing.
Amen!
(Proud owner of a misunderstood 81 Scirocco)
–
Steven D. Borrelli
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute ’92
bor…@rpi.edu (NeXTmail)
> I have been to Germany. There are absolutely no American or Japanese
> cars over there.
There may not be many American cars targeted for the US and sold in
Germany, but unless things have changed in the last 3 months, I was
very surprised about how many Ford and Opel (GM) cars there were in
Germany. Ford seemed to me to be close to #2 behind VW…
–
Paul Keller paul.kel…@frc.ri.cmu.edu
Field Robotics Center Phone: (412) 268-6563
The Robotics Institute Fax: (412) 682-1793
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213